Need advice to begin

[Colibri]

Hi,
I'm 30yo, I live in Switzerland and since the beggining of this year I'm looking more and more to jump to the FPV Drone world. I had lot of things to do the last 3 months but now I have a lot of spare time and I think it would be the best moment for me to jump in. 3 days ago I've seen the new video from Dji with their FPV kit and I would like to know if you think it would be a good starter ? The picture look nice and as I've understand I will just need to buy the "DJI FPV Fly More Combo (Mode 2)" and a drone, right ? Do you have some advice for a good drone to start with this kit ? I've heard a lot of people talking about the Emax HAWK 5, is it a good one ? Is it compatible with the Dji FPV stuff ? Do you have better model or would you choose anything else if it was for you ? Money isn't a problem for me, I want to start with good stuff
Thank you in advance for all your advices.

 

[HighTechPauper]

If you are just getting into the hobby the DJI kit is worth considering, it is cost comparable to top of the line Analog we use today, the downside is you are locked into the DJI stuff without any chance of using other manufacturers parts, and it is a bit big and heavy compared to analog, but the picture looks pretty awesome. If you get an Emax Hawk5, which is a good quad, you will not need the camera and vTX that comes with it, so they will need to come out, and you will need to do a small amount of soldering to put the DJI into it. This is too complex a subject, and the DJI is too new to be able say with certainty what to do, but if I were just starting out I would greatly consider the DJI product. That being said, when you start you will crash a lot, and the DJI will be a bit more expensive to replace the camera or air unit than analog, but like I said the picture in the goggles will be fantastic compared to what we fly with today. Just my 2 cents.

 

[rtkDarling]

More expensive gear does not a better pilot make.

I would say no to the DJI set. It's going to make your first build very difficult, and that hawk 5 doesn't have room for the air unit, so you'll have to strap it to the top or something.

I recommend people start with a micro like the Tinyhawk to learn how to fly, and you can't fly micros with the DJI setup. The cost is comparable ONLY if you're comparing it to the most expensive analog parts on the market, NONE of which I personally use or have ever felt the need for.
The kit that I usually recommend to new pilots is a Taranis X9d or Qx7, the EV800D goggles, and a tinyhawk. It's all about $300 USD and it'll get you flying.

Personally, I am very interested in the DJI set, but I wouldn't even think of touching a DJI product until it's been out for 6 months to a year. Every single one of their drones had problems in the beginning. They have gotten a little better over the years, but I consider their FPV equipment to be in Beta.

 

[Roadking]

About a month ago i was in your very shoes. I didn't know what I didn't know about freestyle flying, although I'd been flying my DJI Phantom for 4 years. Thanks to the advice and help from members here I'm coming up to speed.

I have to agree with the advice you got above from RTK Darling. I did exactly what he suggests, and it helped me learn how to set up the radio transmitter, quad, goggles and how to fly. If I was starting out today, I'd do the same thing regardless of the DJI announcement. It's not so much about cost as it is about learning the in's-and-out's of FPV.

Good luck. It's a great hobby/sport.

 

[tevek]

Have to agree with @rtkDarling, going with the smaller quads makes much more sense than blazing around with the larger kit. I have a Hawk 5 and it really is a furious thing to fly but it followed a brace of wizard x220’s that I rebuilt at least a dozen times. Thing is you will crash, that’s a given with this hobby and unless you have a shop next door, you will spend as much time waiting for parts as flying. I have 4 smaller quads (whoops, 2.5” and 3”), they need just as much skill to fly and don’t explode on impact.
Smaller quads give you a bigger margin for error, increase your skill sets and cost less than a carton of beer in spares.

 

[HighTechPauper]

I agree with everything @rtkDarling and @tevek had to say, but in my defense @Colibri did say "Money isn't a problem"

 

[tevek]

I agree with everything @rtkDarling and @tevek had to say, but in my defense @Colibri did say "Money isn't a problem"

Lol, agreed, money usually isn’t the problem, spending it wisely is. Having flown and destroyed RC stuff for nearly 25 years, I’m almost at the stage of making purchasing choices based on my head and not my heart... Tried explaining that to my son who completely ignored me, bought a Mavic Pro, flew it a couple of times, got bored with it and it now sits somewhere in his house. He looked at my gear and said ‘probably should have listened to you dad’...

 

[rtkDarling]

I'm curious what they're coming out with next. Flight controller? Flight software? RTF FPV kit? What are the chances that they make their own micro / trainer that works with the system? What's stopping them from bringing out their own set of hardware and software standards and dropping betaflight support? The air unit is too big to be adopted by multiGP. DRL makes their own hardware and they're not about to bow to DJI anytime soon. The REAL market value of their equipment is arguably not in the traditional FPV market because that market is tiny.

Maybe this is my inherent distrust talking, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if they wall this system off completely and burn the few real FPV pilots that were hoping to keep their birds on Betaflight.

If I'm wrong (and I pray that I am) I'll likely have a quad on digital by this time next year. We'll see

 

[tevek]

I'm curious what they're coming out with next. Flight controller? Flight software? RTF FPV kit? What are the chances that they make their own micro / trainer that works with the system? What's stopping them from bringing out their own set of hardware and software standards and dropping betaflight support? The air unit is too big to be adopted by multiGP. DRL makes their own hardware and they're not about to bow to DJI anytime soon. The REAL market value of their equipment is arguably not in the traditional FPV market because that market is tiny.

Maybe this is my inherent distrust talking, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if they wall this system off completely and burn the few real FPV pilots that were hoping to keep their birds on Betaflight.

If I'm wrong (and I pray that I am) I'll likely have a quad on digital by this time next year. We'll see

Well I’ve seen some raw footage posted by one of our local suppliers who is stepping up and trialling the combo setup on a home brew quad. Not physically the best setup regarding placement of the air unit etc, but the footage is way better than any analogue effort that I’ve seen and he is flying through trees, across a large park in a wifi infested suburban area.
Early days for sure but as you’ve noted, I suspect the DJI project is more about testing the waters and looking for a response from the quad community. They will invariably run a closed ecosystem much like lightbridge and occusync and you will beholden to them for any and all FW updates, buying from a closed supply community. The thing is as we’ve already seen with their other products, if it works 9 times out 10, people will flock to it, regardless of the cost.
The other thing of note is that there are many more people now looking to quad/drone alternatives given the amount of restrictions being pushed onto the broader community and getting into fpv quads certainly has that appeal.
Given DJI’s economies of scale, they only need a relatively small percentage of uptake to make it economically viable.

 

[HighTechPauper]

I just watched Stingy's latest video on the DJI kit, seems it is not all it is cracked up to be, the varying latency inherent in the way the system works and dropped frames will kill it in the cradle unless DJI can fix or significantly improve it. One second you are flying with 28ms and BOOM you are up to 300 plus ms, how is the brain supposed to adjust to that on the fly??? It can't, and that will be one of the Achilles heels to this.

 

[tevek]

Here is the footage from the guy that runs a quad business in Perth.

In his later comments, he noted that it looks like he may have dropped a few frames in the footage but early days in setting the show up.

 

[rtkDarling]

That's a bummer of a camera placement though huh? Oh, and this is the recording from the goggles, not the onboard. The onboard doesn't loose resolution on the edges like this.

 

[Roadking]

For me the attraction to FPV is the challenge. Adding better video is nice but if DJI adds gps, easier flight control and other things to dumb it down you might as well get a Mavic or Phantom.

 

[tevek]

That's a bummer of a camera placement though huh? Oh, and this is the recording from the goggles, not the onboard. The onboard doesn't loose resolution on the edges like this.

Yeah, he mentioned the pixelation around the edges and suggested that it was a setting within the goggles that he would adjust and that the actual recorded footage was crystal clear.

 

[HighTechPauper]

Yeah, he mentioned the pixelation around the edges and suggested that it was a setting within the goggles that he would adjust and that the actual recorded footage was crystal clear.

It is a feature called "Focus Mode", as the signal degrades it sacrifices resolution on the left and right sides to allow the center to remain clear since that is where you are looking/flying.

 

[tevek]

It is a feature called "Focus Mode", as the signal degrades it sacrifices resolution on the left and right sides to allow the center to remain clear since that is where you are looking/flying.

He did mention that but suspect that he wasn’t aware the purpose behind it or the reasons for it. Coincidence or not, after watching the footage again, I’ve suddenly become very critical of my own set up. Granted it’s analogue, but I compared three of my smaller quads back to back over the same course on my block (trashcan, mobula 7Hd and my new baby hawk r Pro) and buggered if I can get past 50 or so metres on the babyhawk. Triple checked the vtx settings (200mW), my goggle set up and nothing out of the ordinary. Even the mobula on 25mW smokes it.
Probably should create a new post to see if anyone else has the same issue.

 

[HighTechPauper]

@tevek, you are absolutely sure that you held the vTX button and then plugged in to unlock the vTX?
And you are absolutely sure the red dot is lit up in the lower right corner of the 8 segment LED display?
And you are absolutely sure the antenna is firmly on the vTX with no damage?

 

[tevek]

@tevek, you are absolutely sure that you held the vTX button and then plugged in to unlock the vTX?
And you are absolutely sure the red dot is lit up in the lower right corner of the 8 segment LED display?
And you are absolutely sure the antenna is firmly on the vTX with no damage?

Absolutely sure I’m in unlocked mode with the red dot displayed. Checked in the osd that I’m on 200mW and have tried a number of different freqs to make sure I don’t have any interference issues. Going to double check the mmcx connection but I haven’t touched it as the quad is brand new. Maybe try a pagoda setup...

 

[HighTechPauper]

Absolutely sure I’m in unlocked mode with the red dot displayed. Checked in the osd that I’m on 200mW and have tried a number of different freqs to make sure I don’t have any interference issues. Going to double check the mmcx connection but I haven’t touched it as the quad is brand new. Maybe try a pagoda setup...

I don't think a different antenna will make the difference, I am guessing a bad vTX or a bad MMCX cable. I know you can't go by the OSD display just because it has no real bearing on what the vTX is set for if the vTX isn't unlocked or some other issue, it sets the FC to tell the vTX what to be at over the Smart Audio and that is it, so if the vTX isn't listening for some reason it can be deceiving. I also know that the setting in the OSD should be the (I am guessing) second power level setting since the vTX is only 25 and 200, the OSD setting doesn't set the exact power as it is just read from a script, but the lowest setting should set it to the lowest the vTX supports and the second highest should set it to the next setting etc., the numbers don't mean anything really.

 

[tevek]

I don't think a different antenna will make the difference, I am guessing a bad vTX or a bad MMCX cable. I know you can't go by the OSD display just because it has no real bearing on what the vTX is set for if the vTX isn't unlocked or some other issue, it sets the FC to tell the vTX what to be at over the Smart Audio and that is it, so if the vTX isn't listening for some reason it can be deceiving. I also know that the setting in the OSD should be the (I am guessing) second power level setting since the vTX is only 25 and 200, the OSD setting doesn't set the exact power as it is just read from a script, but the lowest setting should set it to the lowest the vTX supports and the second highest should set it to the next setting etc., the numbers don't mean anything really.

Yes you’re right regarding the OSD settings, I found out that the numbers could literally be anything as they don’t actually adjust the VTX power. There a number of YouTube videos outlining the correct setup and I’ve followed them to the letter. I’ll dismantle the quad this afternoon and check the mmcx connection again, after I’ve flown my other girls (its actually stopped raining...)