New Tiny whoop problem thread...

[baevans11]

I posted a while back about problems I'm having with my tiny whoop. Sorry to start another thread I just want to see if I can get help. I will attach videos and the times where issues occur. I'm having two different problems. 1: It will make a yaw turn of 45 or more degrees with no stick command. 2: on aggressive turns or rolls (but not always) I lose 80% of throttle response and it wobbles or spins in a descent. Parts I'm using: Cockroach frame, furiousfpv acrowhoop v2 spektrum, betafpv insane & faster motors, 3 & 4 blade props, mylipo lipo with upgraded 2.0 connector. I have tried for hours on end to tune this thing and while I'm still learning to tune I have a decent grasp on it and my chameleon flies great. I'm talking back and forth with furiousfpv and they are really providing any help. I've tried several sets of motors and all parts and batteries are only 2 mos old. I've had these issues from the start. I've tried stock pids on both versions I've had on the board and I've turned on dynamic filter with notch filters off and vice versa with no change. Video 5: the turns at :35 & 1:03 are uncommanded, video 4 I do a roll and it violently wobbles and I lose throttle almost completely, video 3 the yaw turns at :12 and :19 are uncommanded. Thx for any help.
Video 5-

Video 4-

Video 3-

 

[VirtueViolater]

If you look at your motors, there's supports from the rings around the motors that break pretty easy, may check them for breaks

 

[baevans11]

If you look at your motors, there's supports from the rings around the motors that break pretty easy, may check them for breaks

I checked and no breaks. I completely rebuilt it just to see if the problem would go away but it didn't. Furious fpv asked me what my pwm was and I told them 32000 which is the default. Is there a better setting than that? What effect would changing this number have ? I've also noticed that since the latest firmware flash I've lost some throttle response it just feels lagging in power and as I said I have the upgraded power connector and new lipos. Thx for your help.

 

[VirtueViolater]

Dude, honestly, tinywhoops are what they are, the motors wear out extremely fast and when brand new they just are not gonna fly like a brushless quad

 

[baevans11]

Yeah I know I'm not expecting it to be crazy smooth or anything. The power issue isn't really an issue I just kinda threw it in there. That being said I know that random yaw turns of 45 degrees or more and out of nowhere can't be normal. Maybe it's just this brand of motors I don't know. They aren't the greatest brand so maybe I'll try a different brand. Cause it really seems like one or 2 motors just stop or spin faster for no reason. And it can't be wear and tear because they'd do it on their first flight. But I hear what your saying. Thx

 

[baevans11]

Tiny whoop update: In emailing FuriousFPV they finally got to a point and asked me if I had some well known motors to try and I said no but that I would get some. They said that if the motors still didn't resolve the problem they would replace the board. (Very good of them) well I got my set of NewBeedrone gold edition motors and put them on and my whoop flies great! I was able to get a good tune on it in 4 or 5 lipos. Somethng I've been trying to do for over a month with 4 different sets of Betafpv motors! I hate to bash a company but I have to call it how it is, betafpv's motors were worthless. At least the batch of faster and insane ones I got. Who knows maybe something was wrong with just that batch. Since I know it wasn't the board I'm confident that one or more of these motors was just cutting out. Possibly due to a bad connector idk. I just know with these new motors it's a completely different whoop, no random yaw turns and I was able to tune it so I have very minimal propwash issues on turns. Thx everyone for your help and advice.

 

[true911]

Tiny whoop update: In emailing FuriousFPV they finally got to a point and asked me if I had some well known motors to try and I said no but that I would get some....

I've had these same problems on multiple builds, the advice I received was that these brushed motors need seemingly insane PIDs to deliver the normal adjustments. I was able to overcome the problems, but also had the effect that the motors had barely more lift than level flight required. I'd about given up on whoops.

Seeing your results now, I'm taking another look at my motors and will try again. Given that my PIDs are probably overkill (and maybe a negative effect), can you tell me where your PIDs ended up after the motors solved the problem?

Thanks!

 

[baevans11]

I've had these same problems on multiple builds, the advice I received was that these brushed motors need seemingly insane PIDs to deliver the normal adjustments. I was able to overcome the problems, but also had the effect that the motors had barely more lift than level flight required. I'd about given up on whoops.

Seeing your results now, I'm taking another look at my motors and will try again. Given that my PIDs are probably overkill (and maybe a negative effect), can you tell me where your PIDs ended up after the motors solved the problem?

 

[baevans11]

View attachment 1526 View attachment 1527 View attachment 1528

I will attach pics of my pid's and rates. I'l also attach a pic of my whoop. I' using the acrowhoop v2, cockroach frame and NewBeedrone gold edition motors. My weight is 21.6 grams without lipo. Also I'm running mylipo 205's and glacier 220's I highly recommend both but I'm looking into some hv nitro nectars for my next lipos. I should also point out I'm still having a slight roll turn on a fast yaw input so I still have to try and tune the yaw pid's a little but all in all my whoop flies really great. Hopefully this helps you.

 

[true911]

Thanks a lot, hopefully that will be a better starting point for my next attempts.

 

[baevans11]

Thanks a lot, hopefully that will be a better starting point for my next attempts.

Yeah I hope so and your welcome. The crazy high stock pids didn't work well for me. Also I'm using the 3.2 version of betaflight with dynamic filter on and all notch filters off.

 

[true911]

Finally got around to this yesterday. I killed the filters but FEATURES LIST didn't show the dynamic filter option - BF v3.2 on one and 3.2.2 on the other.

I re-worked the PIDs and the power is a little better, but now they're back to tossing in uncommanded motions, like a 90deg yaw turn while climbing (one in particular, an Acrowhoop FC) and now they're not flyable for a different reason. It's this stuff that pushes me away from the brushed models. My baby hawks cost less anyway.

 

[baevans11]

Finally got around to this yesterday. I killed the filters but FEATURES LIST didn't show the dynamic filter option - BF v3.2 on one and 3.2.2 on the other.

I re-worked the PIDs and the power is a little better, but now they're back to tossing in uncommanded motions, like a 90deg yaw turn while climbing (one in particular, an Acrowhoop FC) and now they're not flyable for a different reason. It's this stuff that pushes me away from the brushed models. My baby hawks cost less anyway.

So it doesn' show the dynamic filter in the configuration tab? Should be an anti-gravity switch next to it. Well that' the same problem I had with my acrowhoop and ultimately what fixed it was the new motors from NewBeedrone I got the gold. What I think was happening was one or more motors were failing on throttle changes causing a yaw turn. Even tho the motors were new they were of a sub par brand. I'd give them a shot if I was you.

 

[jeffx]

Not to awaken a dead thread, but I am having a similar problem and traced it back to the cockroach frame. The front and rear FC support posts seem to get bent out over time and this seems to introduce quite a bit of noise to the gyro in flight. Eventually the FC will even pop out of 1 of the grommets after a crash. The problem first manifests itself as an inability to yaw, then it will just start yawing on its own in 1 direction and eventually it will just start doing random punchouts into the ceiling. Tried new props, new motors and even a new FC. What made the problem go away most recently is taking the FC off the frame, carefully bending back those FC support posts and finding a perfect level of tightness for the screws over all the FC rubber grommets. I'm still always paranoid that I'm 1 bad crash away from the problem returning.

How are other people avoiding the issue with the front and rear FC support posts bending outwards in the cockroach frame and even other frames? The canopy/camera mount I am using screws in over the side FC mounts which prevents those from bending out. Is there a canopy that screws in over all 4 FC mounts to keep them from bending out?

 

[baevans11]

Not to awaken a dead thread, but I am having a similar problem and traced it back to the cockroach frame. The front and rear FC support posts seem to get bent out over time and this seems to introduce quite a bit of noise to the gyro in flight. Eventually the FC will even pop out of 1 of the grommets after a crash. The problem first manifests itself as an inability to yaw, then it will just start yawing on its own in 1 direction and eventually it will just start doing random punchouts into the ceiling. Tried new props, new motors and even a new FC. What made the problem go away most recently is taking the FC off the frame, carefully bending back those FC support posts and finding a perfect level of tightness for the screws over all the FC rubber grommets. I'm still always paranoid that I'm 1 bad crash away from the problem returning.

How are other people avoiding the issue with the front and rear FC support posts bending outwards in the cockroach frame and even other frames? The canopy/camera mount I am using screws in over the side FC mounts which prevents those from bending out. Is there a canopy that screws in over all 4 FC mounts to keep them from bending out?

Yeah that' a very good point. I have yet to find a canopy like that but if it does get bent out I'd imagine slowly warming it up with a heat gun and reshaping it would work. I have had this problem too. I usully just toss them if they are more than 1 month old. Cause I beat the hell out of my whoops lol. But you definitey have shed some light on a real problem.

 

[jeffx]

View media item 74
This was the best I could come up with and it seems to work perfectly at keeping the roach front and rear FC posts from bending out.

I just cut a strip of plastic from a 2 liter bottle and poked 2 holes 37mm apart with a thumb tack for the screw holes. Light, strong and low profile.